On 27 September 2014 00:56, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

Hello-

im shia
if you have any interest
we could start a dialogue 
if not
no harm no foul
I like your point of view

On Sep 27, 2014, at 3:16 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

hey,

i'm interested :) i have tons of respect for what u do, particularly #iamsorry. 

meeting luke and nastja earlier this year was kind of revelatory for me, can't stop seeing metamodernist ideas & attitudes in everything. 

let's talk for sure!

On 27 September 2014 20:47, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

Hey thanks 
Same you can garner a lot of info from a playlist-
I'm gonna be in London for the close of the bfi
We should sit down for an in person interview 
Chop it up 
Nothin formal 
Would you be open to that?

On Sep 27, 2014, at 10:07 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

definitely open to that!

what dates are you in London? only problem is I have a trip to Krakow planned for that weekend.

On 27 September 2014 21:30, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

oct 18 and 19
oh well
well find another time for it

On Sep 28, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

cool!

hope you're resting up after the metamarathon. don't know if you wanted to get into an email correspondence, but i had a couple things i wanted to ask & share. all good if you would rather not (like you said. no harm no foul.)

i'm really interested in what the connection is between performances of physical fitness & metamodernism to you.. i know there's a lot of focus on the body in post-internet art and the ways we experience our bodies through and alongside digital culture, & see that you're playing with that with the skyping, the nike app, the tweets. but what's metamodern about meditative or performative exercise? i'm just really curious about your perspective on this & hoping to understand better

i was also wondering if you're into constant dullaart's writing? i haven't read a lot, but his essay on the illusion of "public" vs "private" spaces & how that relates to the internet was my favourite essay in 'you are here'. i was just looking through his website yesterday and there's some similar ideas in there. i just found it thought-provoking and wanted to share. "To select what we want to have read, and by whom, is our greatest challenge rly." maybe you have a really enhanced sense of those "public/private" spaces, selves, communities, feeds

it's cool that you listened to a playlist of mine, thanks. don't know what you garnered from it, but happy to talk music or send you some if you're interested. i think there's a lot of metamodern ideas floating around in online underground labels right now.

On Sep 27, 2014, at 10:35 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

Theres some cool stuff  in “The Principle Of Topological Psychology” by Kurt Lewin
that deals with notion of “Power-Fields”
about how each individual radiated a personal Power-Field which includes
all possible interaction with other people and objects in a particular physical space
a lot of Vito Acconci’s stuff deals with this as well
it was introspective and it was the artist looking at himself 
as the "image" seeing the "image" as others might
-
I don’t separate art activities from everyday life
it's performance material - 
walking, eating, touching, breathing et…
so we create situations that are like game assignment
and they all become a part of an individual/ collective exploratory process
its a non-verbal theater of spectator participation 
that aim to create a self-portrait of the observer
-
we really just make good backdrops for selfys
-
its meta-modern in that it says-
“Yes, i know i look like an idiot with these fucking pants on,
and yes, running around the same building for hours is stupid.
and yes, people have run distances like this and more before us.
But that does not mean this isn’t serious.”

its meta-modern in that it all deals with 
the coexistence of the static and mobile
redemption and restitution
its redemption through suffering
and suffering through strengthening 
its sincere and ironic
public and private
intimate and open

-
I’ve never read any Dullaart
but i will - thank you


On 27 September 2014 10:01, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

We all have to be performance-athlete-artists in the social media age
"#metamarathon" and "meditation for narcissist’s"  
hinge on the necessity of 
Performance' (as athlete)
and the Performative (as artist)
in the digital age
the work refer's to the acceleration 
and simultaneity of production/ consumption 
spectatorship/ participation
across the networks of the digital and the physical
the virtual and the actual

On Sep 28, 2014, at 10:39 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

thank you :)

this makes so much sense - at meditation for narcissists i felt like it was the prospect of spectacle that drew in a lot of people and then what emerged was more of a feeling of being observed. which led to a whole bunch of reactions along a spectrum of self-consciousness. and selfie-taking. including me, i tripped on my rope and blushed and laughed inappropriately a lot and felt clumsily awkwardly present

i didn't know anything about field theory or lewin to be honest but seems crucial, thank you, will definitely read up more. 

dullaart is similarly providing a topological or cartographical outline but for network culture specifically rather than physical social interaction. he talks about how "public" spaces are in fact privately owned, and private ownership means nothing online is in fact "private."

it always makes me laugh to see tabloids etc print pics of you in leggings with a headline that suggests you're not in on some joke, trying to possess or code your "image" in some way...i mean u obviously have a sense of humour. & you're obviously manipulating & owning your own image when u put those leggings on.. between this and method acting and athletic performance and performative art (and being a backdrop for selfies) i can't imagine how you maintain an actual sense of self and presence. that's why i found iamsorry v inspirational and moving.

if you don't mind me asking: if you have any other essential reading (viewing/whatever) recommendations i'd love to dive in. if there's anything that was an epiphany or turning point for you. i don't know how far back this journey goes for you or if you could pinpoint it. but i like the way your mind works and i'm keen to get on ur wavelength.

On Sep 27, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

It started as a genuine existential crises
I made a short film with another persons ideas
took it to cannes & never properly accredited him (Clowes)
I was in hot water looking for ideas to back my play
I found Kenneth Goldsmith & made contact beginning of January
I ran with that concept for a while 
which led very quickly to a dead end 
in that it didn’t truley match my sensibilities
not all of them anyway
-
I am a deeply ironic, cynical person
I was raised on the Simpsons and South Park
its my default setting 
which is why "uncreative writing" and Goldsmith felt right
What was missing however was the hopeful
the sublime, the fantasy, god? … not the hallelujah GOD - but something….
the GOD is dead shit never sat well with me
I had Hitchens and rational, but...
-
And I think these things are true of my generation
we want to change things
we want to have hope
we just don’t now how or where to look
but it feels necessary 
yes, ok the world is very unpleasant 
that has been revealed 
reality is shit, ok, got it, but…
-
I should also mention I’m a deeply dissatisfied person
Its a job requirement of any actor
its all about dissatisfaction otherwise you wouldn’t do it
you wouldn’t make things up
why not just go enjoy your life
go eat an ice cream cone
why go on a film set and pretend real hard your eating an ice cream cone
what the fuck is the point in that
it has to be BETTER than ice cream
it has to represent something BETTER than the REAL ice cream cone
and the thing that makes it BETTER is your dissatisfaction with the REAL ice cream cone
I find it on set - some never find it
thats how i feel about the post-moderns 
they never found the BETTER reality
I know of a BETTER ice cream cone
i know it exists
so i needed to find a discourse that matched that sensibility 
something that said “its both” “its better and fantasy” but "its real"
I knew of the ironic, cynical bunch that said “its shit” but "its real"
It was lacking the positivity and hope I had a hankering for
so in the face of that positive yearning
Goldsmiths ideas seemed out dated and limited
-
I found Luke through the networks
made contact in the middle of January
he started schooling me on meta-modernisum
I had read some Artaud and Brecht
and found a lot of what he was talking about 
was already in personal application on set
I am immersive in my craft 
I saw the stuff we were orchestrating w/ Nastja
in the same light
i don’t see a huge difference in the work we do
and the work I do 
like a car crash
or a birthday party
they’re both incredibly immersive
open and intimate
-
Im finding my self through the networks
and exploring the multiplicity of personas
the public me 
the private me
im exploring
what started as an actual full blown existential crises
is now a full blown existential exploration
-
i hope this helps wavelength-wise
& as far as stuff to read
these are my three favorite poems-

1———

2————

3—————


On Sep 27, 2014, at 7:47 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

re: god - 
I believe in magic


On 27 September 2014 16:10, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUnH9NECSUU

On Sep 29, 2014, at 1:31 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

lol - whereas the generation after us have Adventure Time. have you watched any of it? it's got tons of hope and magic. but a very ironic tone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ehJxn8MeS8

i feel like i was raised (by the internet) to always be distanced and questioning and critical of culture too. to not love anything too much. i said i didn't believe in god but when a loved one had a near death experience earlier this yr i prayed every day (no better than homer) and coincidentally it was not too long afterwards when i met luke and nastja and started engaging with these ideas. im just telling you this because i think you're very right, i think our generation have been raised as cynics but when things get really real, there's still an instinct to strive and to search for something better, something pure and sincere that can give meaning. 

i like that you were basically practicing metamodernism before you had the words or the theory. how long have you been method acting for?

the bluebird poem is beautiful, but makes me want to ask if acting was ever a way of getting away from yourself? or is it about getting more in touch with yourself, letting birdsong out?

what do you think you're learning about public/private you now?

the dr seuss poem & the dissatisfied pursuit of better ice cream cones reminds me of this very weird & very brilliant keats poem.

re: bukowski, i've just started getting into his poetry and i keep going back to the freeway life. i can't find a link online, have u read it? i identify a lot with that idea of being seemingly in control but still going through the motions, the same small hurdles time and again. but again: he doesn't identify anything better. it's so hopeless and airless

do you engage much with "post-internet" art? i assumed you did because of the references in your out of office piece. i'm no expert in that world but there's a lot of humour to it and exploration of the physical & digital self 

On Sep 29, 2014, at 8:24 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

I really like Adventure Time & Keats
-
on the post internet art tip- 
Kutiman -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoHxoz_0ykI
Jennifer Chan
Zach Blas
Erika Balsom
-
"method" came after working on “Lawless” w/ Tom Hardy
who basically said "you don’t loose anything by studying some"
i always had reservations on the notion of studying
i always thought acting had to do w/ instinct 
but i was wrong
the more i read the more i found how limited i was w/ the instincts i trusted so much
but i don’t know if it is of any value to discuss the process
simply because its not something I’m really aware of
i mean - i know Stanislavki - is feel, Brecht - is think, Artuad - is be
but i float around disciplines its not any one thing
most of the Stanislavki method (which is The Method), is a system
of practical esthetic for the actor based on the Aristotelian idea of unity
and through that, through community
you learn more about yourself, yes, but...
to act is to live a hundred lifetimes in a single one
so its a bit of getting away & getting in touch
- theres a common misconception about "method"
that it some how means “real” or a truer "true"
Stanislavski was once doing a play about a terrorist at yalta
he imported real palm trees at a great expense
when he put them on the stage, under the lights, they looked fake
so he then had to make artificial ones that would look real
very meta-modern
its not a new concept
its just now becoming dominant 
-
I think the method thing attributed to me 
has more to do with my commitment level 
im a real fake tree
i make the leap, i don’t question the authenticity 
thats an Allan Kaprow thing
the “illusion” is that I’m making it up
i go there - all the way out there
you find the truth out there 
i take things to the edge and off
I’m constantly jumping off cliffs
and developing my wings on the way down
in life and art
its a gamble
a deep spiritual gamble
-
you are who you choose to be
its a choice
if you are what you eat, and you CHOOSE to eat different food
you become a different person 
the roles shape you
life imitates art
-
as far as the public/ private question
my favorite scene in any movie
is in "Home Alone" when its christmas
and the whole family of 50 are running up and down the stairs
thats heaven
i am an only child, i was an isolator for a long time 
the music and movies i came up on told me to "be alone" "life is shit"
as did most of the literature 
Moby Dick, Huck Fin, The Illiad & The Odyssey, Et...
living like that didn’t serve me well
this interaction between individuals, these situations specifically
has given me new pair of glasses
-
i recommend that everybody join all sorts of organizations
no matter how stupid or silly
simply to get more people in your life
it doesn’t matter if all members are fucking idiots
quantities of relatives of any sort is what we need
not online communities
big families 
computers create ghosts
they are no more increasers of your brain power or character
than slot machines
a computer teaches people what a computer can become
i look at social media as Tetris, its a game
i treat it as such
its not an extended family
i don’t think people should try to make an extended family online
i say go get yourself some roller skates and join your local roller derby


On Sep 29, 2014, at 8:49 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

although
i did meet my extended family online as ghosts first
so it is a great facilitator 
also my palm tree shuffle
seemed quite post-modern
i think what i mean by it is
a real tree that doesn't look real
is preferable to a fake tree that looks real
so maybe 
I'll make the real tree look a bit more fake
in order that it looks more real
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
and so on
...


On 29 September 2014 17:06, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHjIXdXSYno

On Sep 29, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

but i'm not a ghost

like you say, your extended family not ghosts i totally know what you mean about the clamour of real presence and quantity of people, the feeling of being surrounded and being a part of something living. i get that right now i'm making conscious decisions about each word i type and so projecting something, & im not physically present - but i actually feel that the thought-out roles we project online (the shapes we squeeze ourselves into, so we can fit in the little square gaps) are often misconceived as being somehow less "real" than our actual "selves" or "lives"...but like you said, every role you choose to play is a decision you make - "you are who you choose to be"

i might favourite a tweet because i laughed IRL or see a photo someone i miss and get upset or get an email from someone whose work i admire and feel happy about it, and those are all directly impacting and reflecting my actual being. i think the questions of authenticity we used to ask about online personas and relationships are disappearing and the digital world is becoming, more than ever, part of the "real" (or at least an extension or performance of it). a real fake tree

fundamentally, there's one of us on either side of the exchange. there's scope for interpretation and response. that's more variables than tetris, no? it's human

computers aren't slot machines because slot machines will never connect you to anyone or tell you anything

you could have a big family but feel lost and unseen in the middle of them. online you could find a new sense of self, getting away from and getting in touch with

i deliberately wrote this email v quickly in an attempt to override the feeling of self-editing or trying to project anything "unreal" but i can't escape the feeling that that in itself is a "fake" thing so, lol

there's a play by hito steyerl about something like this - the play is 2 people, an older man and a young girl, conducting a relationship on an aol chatroom, and they're going through these huge surges of emotion and yet they are, to an onlooker, two people sitting quietly at screens

(also speaking of dullaart, as i was, and of the game of social media, as you were, i just saw this - http://dismagazine.com/dystopia/67039/constant-dullaart-100000-followers-for-everyone/ - in this case, the audience is a commodity, unreal -- but the chain always ends with a human, and the point is to influence the characters & brains of others)

On 29 September 2014 23:59, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

this is fun

i actually totally agree with you
it's all about finding the humanity of the networks

i think that's why i don't really like Dullaart that much
He only seems interested in 
the cynical aspects of the net

the Tetris analogy’s no good tho
thats all Camus
the meta-modern position
would be torn between the absurdist position 
& a yearning to get to that next level
your right about the commuters/ slot machines as well
the network’s have a capacity for empathy
I’ve seen this on the front line
social media is facilitating us to treat others
as part of the same whole
We win together, we lose together
fuck Tetris
we make new games together

on a bureaucratic side note
i gave Interview magazine the exclusive interview with me
so if you are to print anything
please hold off until after november 1
i gave them my word

On Sep 30, 2014, at 2:36 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

i get what you mean about Dullaart. there's nothing sexy about his theories but i like the way he makes me think about the landscape of the net. privacy obviously being a big issue at the moment. (am obsessed with this pop song about the NSA right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_3mCDJ_iWc)

ok - I spoke to my editor at Dazed this morning and i'm going to stay in london to meet you on the 18th/19th if you're still game?

they are also keen to set up a shoot if you have time during your london trip. let me know what you're thinking

On 30 September 2014 15:33, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

the #interview

I like the idea that we meet in person
with a go pro photographic record but no interview
we just look into each others eyes for an hour
connect on a soul level
and film that as the interview
and keep the words online

so we will will both have go pro cameras strapped to our heads for the full hour
and the footage will be presented raw as a split screen
and you can use it on the Dazed video site

so I’m present in the magazine only in words obtained digitally
and online I’m present only through a mute physical presence
and the reality of my self lies somewhere between and beyond the two

it's thoroughly metamodern I think 


On 30 September 2014 15:50, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

The result will be a gestural
collaborative document of the meeting
silent yet transparent 
the words in the magazine should be accompanied 
by images we took at Luke’s house of my hands scrolling through our twitter page
typing the tweets, reading replies 
they have yet to be used for anything 
but they tell a wonderful story of self
they would represent my physical self in the magazine
as opposed to a photo shoot which is the antithesis of real
-
ill send those images shortly 

On Sep 30, 2014, at 8:22 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

okay. i'm into this idea

i hesitated a second because i haven't been filmed before.. but i feel uncomfortable and also deeply amused at the idea of doing this. and that's metamodern right?

i like the idea that we'd both come to this physical encounter with an idea of one another built from things shared on a digital plane, and leave it all unspoken, keep the two wholly separate, so that like you said the truth is somewhere between.

i'm excited about this too because i was disappointed to not be able to come to #iamsorry. i'm fascinated by the idea that the only whole document of that exhibition is in your mind. that just doesn't happen with any other kind of event or encounter.

did you feel many connections on a soul level during iamsorry? how well do you feel it's possible to know someone from a meeting like that?

did any of those experiences stand out to you as particularly moving or even unsettling?

what did you learn about yourself? what did you learn about others?

On 30 September 2014 17:06, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

most every one who came in 
had preconceived notions of what they were going to experience
and as soon as Nastja brought them through the curtain- everything changed
plans dissipated 
i went from being a celebrity or object
to a fellow a human
it happened in less than a second for some
for others they needed to take the bag off
but it usually happened
and by “it” i mean connection
it was a very human encounter once it was 2 people in a room

unless they were filming the experience 
that changed there ability to engage
there documentation became a leash
that held them and kept them away from being open/ receptive
to there enviorment and me

i was genuinley remorseful - and full of shame and guilt
i was broken - it wasn’t manipulation - i was heartbroken
and people I’ve never met before came in
and loved on me and with me
some for multiple days
some would come in hold my hand and cry with me 
some would come in and tell me to "figure it out" to "be a man"
in the end i felt cared for
however it came - it was beautiful
it blew me away
I’ve never experienced love like that, empathy
humanity, understanding

still there were others who came in with an agenda they couldn’t let go of
i was a broken man in a very real way
and some folks would come in take my bag off
never look me in the eye
pop off a selfie
and bounce
that felt terrible

one woman who came with her boyfriend
who was out side the door when this happened
whipped my legs for 10 minutes and then striped my clothing
and proceeded to rape me
then walked out with her lipstick smudged 
to her awaiting boyfriend
who i image was quite hurt by it
all this happened in front of hundreds of people
it was really terrible that

Im finding my self through these projects
im exploring
-
to switch gears a bit
the interview, and these images 
have to be in the print version of the magazine
as otherwise I don't think this really work's
below are the low res images







On Sep 30, 2014, at 10:10 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

i'm so sorry that happened to you, that someone was able to objectify you and dehumanise you in that way. it's hard to make this sound heartfelt on a screen, but i really hurt for you when i read those words. you say it happened in front of hundreds of people, what do you mean? were all the encounters not alone?

how much do those experiences, good and bad, permeate your general thoughts now - were the more traumatic meetings worth enduring for the overall effect the exhibition has had on you long-term? marina abramovic has said of rhythm 0 that she was "ready to die"; did/do you feel the same?

would it be fair to say these experiences - where you were subjected to selfies and assault and people hid behinds screens - were a magnified, amplified portrayal of the general objectification you've felt in the past as a public figure?

did "i am not famous" come from a real disillusionment with celebrity, a real desire to withdraw from public life? did you ever at any point believe a total withdrawal from public life would be possible or desirable?

-

the interview and images will definitely be in print, in Dazed's Winter issue

i will also have to write something to go online with the video though, for context. would you be happy with me using select quotes online, but writing a fuller piece & producing more of our conversation in print?

On 30 September 2014 18:37, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

yea it was no good
not just for me but her man as well
on top of that my girl was in line to come see me
because it was valentines day 
& i was living in the gallery sleeping in a sleeping bag 
for the duration of the event - we were separated for 5 days
no communication
so it really hurt her as well
as i guess the news of it traveled through the line
she was only about 25 people back
when she came in she asked for an explination
and i couldn’t speak
so we both sat with this unexplained trauma
silently it was painful
the hardest part of the show
it fucked our valentines day 

all encounters were one person at a time
but there were hundreds of people in line when she walked out 
with disheveled hair and smudged lipstick

and yes i would half agree with Abramovic's sentiment
i once felt to learn from tragic experience is as much happiness as one can aspire to
I’ve since learned there is a happiness past that
being ready to die for it is is only one part
being ready to live for it is the other

and yea the 80s and 90s fucked us
our culture became a product to be sold
and anyone in a tabloid is a product - an object
american culture especially is just about blow jobs and golf
but there is a yearning for something else
and were getting there out of necessity 

yea i wanted to take back ownership
i wanted to have purpose
fuck the money - i was poor my whole life
money showed up but that was never the impetus
I’ve wanted purpose
what is this life about? we are here to help each other
that is the natural instinct we run from
but when people are faced with it
that is the innate response 
even in the face of the negativity
were here to help each other get through this thing
whatever it is

its a tragedy the humans can get so much enthusiasum
and energy from hatred and negativity
but its real
hitler resurrected a beaten, broken, half starved nation
on hatred and nothing else

but it isn’t the go to response
its not ones natural instinct
not when there face to face with it
thats what I’ve found through these projects anyway
when people came through the curtain
they might have waited in the line for hrs thinking about how they were going
to follow up on the hatred they so freely threw on the internet
but when they are face to face with it
natural instincts kick in
humanity, empathy and love 

On Sep 30, 2014, at 4:56 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

i love that the outcome of all this is so positive for you internally, and it's so interesting that the way it's being portrayed is inverse. because it's something different, and doesn't fit in the celeb press narrative - i have seen you described as "troubled star Shia LaBeouf" so many times, but you talk (write) like someone who has had troubles and is finally finding meaning & hope on the other side of them

(would that be fair to say?)

and to look at it on a broader scale, like you are finding something more meaningful than that world of hatred. so no wonder they want to reject it i suppose.

you say you used to feel objectified by the media, do you feel like you have taken back ownership now? is it difficult to separate yourself from that world mentally?

-

i don't want to dwell too much on the plagiarism that began all of this and that you incorporated into your work around iamsorry ("all art is plagiarism") because i feel like you have explained it and it has been discussed a lot. but mentioning marina abramovic - some said #iamsorry was a plagiarised version of the artist is present. how would you respond to that?

-

also because you talk about instinct being for love and empathy, i wanted to circle back to your earlier point about how you once used instinct to guide you in acting, then you realised it was no less honest to study for a role. you said you found your instincts were limited. 

i know you didn't want to discuss process too much, but i'm curious about this thread of thought on instinct. could you explain your thoughts on instinct and intellect, in relation to metamodernism? how much do you allow either to guide you, in your life and work and art - is it an oscillation? how do you make the distinction between situations that call for either one?

On 1 October 2014 02:58, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

thats fair

as far as the ownership over my self-
I’m in a nice position in that i don’t think the studios look to me to sell a film anymore 
:)
so the work i wind up doing has little or nothing to do with my public persona
and everything to do with my performance
a big thing i struggled with early on in my career
was that in working at the majors 
a world i entered as an actor 
my intentions got sidetracked

i made a small film when i was 18 that was a big financial success 'Disturbia’ 
then i was put under contract with Dreamworks 
a company i have had respect and admiration for my whole life
which is run by one of the great geniuses of all time
in Steven Spielberg - i think i had grandiose expectations 
these things never panned out and i in turn
was forced into the box of a commodity persona
being asked to play the same role over and over again
(the ordinary guy in extraordinary circumstances)
which was really just who i was at the time
it was my true self
my true self was turned into a public persona
and that persona was inserted in different plot driven movies
so to work with my hero i had to accept that my true self was going to be objectified

persona acting has little to nothing to do with ability
& everything to do with charisma & ticket sales
so for an actor looking to stretch himself
you find the roles your contracted to do
don’t have room for that dream
i came in wanted to make movies about people
& wound up making movies about plot
after 5 years of that your dreams die
and as your dreams die your charm/ charisma dies
but you can’t pull up when your wings are gone
so you stay on the train because the train aint stopping
you keep doing what your told
& when the films get blasted for lack of performance 
you get blamed for things you had no say on
the whole thing becomes quite degrading
especially the way, like all oppressed groups 
you internalize the prejudice society holds against you
its like slaves who aren’t allowed to learn to read or write
you have no say what so ever about the artistic conditions of your work
and when your work is your life - you have no say over your life
so in a sense i went on strike - i rebeled 
this exhibited itself behaviorally both consienscely and un-consiencely
to go through some kind of puberty ceremony & gain control over my artistic life 

i have since worked on some things i really appreciate being a part of
& at the very least have the solace of my ideals

on marina and plagiarism- 
we didn’t create the piece with any reference to hers
marina told vulture -
“this is not the same work. i don’t see it as anything to do with me”,
“its a pretty strong statement” marina actually told the interviewer her questioning was manipulative 
and the press wrote that she said my work was manipulative 
so she in turn called that outlet and told them to edit there title from
“marina abromovic calls shia’s #iamsorry manipulative”
to “marina abromovic on Shia LaBeoufs performance art”
i thought that was mad cool
but no - hers was the artist is present
in ours the artist is absent - i was gone 
my piece was about a remorseful human being
the artist was irrelevant
it had to do with forgiveness 
not romantic genius
we were after something else entirely
-
on how instinct relates to the meta-modern-

it happens with the viewer and in the choice of material
it happens at the starting line
its meta-modern mainly in the area of subjectivity
i try to get away from distinctions and thoughts of art philosophy when I’m in it
i don’t think much when I’m acting - i feel
acting is like sex, it isn’t about talking and thinking - its in the doing
the thinking happens in the begining 
firstly i tend to pick projects now which are based on people 
who i am not but with whom i deeply identify with
and since i am picking films about PEOPLE as of late 
it becomes the subject as well
and so the viewer associates that characters voice with the ideas
thoughts & emotions which are expressed
& the viewer is lead to believe those views
experiences, observations & longings are my own
I’m asking the viewer to do the work - to use there ‘instincts'
to look for connections between seemingly unconnected things
the person i actually am in life
and the person I’m playing in a film
truth that cannot be true
intimately interconnected identities that can’t exist
its as if I’m looking to play a type of charter who refers himself as "we"
meaning me shia and me the character
in hopes of createing a different kind of intimacy 

On Oct 1, 2014, at 5:45 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

this last bit is really interesting and i want to pause on that a sec. are you saying that you're deliberately choosing roles that are more unlike yourself (but that you still empathise with) to challenge the viewer to make the distinction between you the person and you the role - to understand that the two can co-exist?

when you say a different kind of intimacy, do you mean between you and your characters? you and viewers? 

of the things you've chosen to take on since your "rebellion", i thought nymphomaniac was incredible. i saw an interview with you where you said you wanted to take that role to have a go at being an adversary; how did you find taking on that adversarial character? what was your experience of working with Von Trier?

what's your favourite Spielberg movie? :)

--

i don't want to bombard you too much between now and the 18th, but i think it would be cool to more or less keep the dialogue going til we meet. i'm going to see Fury next tuesday; maybe we could take a breather while I read & think & watch, and come back to you with some more thoughts & questions after the screening. does that sound good?

i'm having a blast talking to you. thank you. 

On Oct 1, 2014, at 7:03 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

I’m saying I’m looking for roles who are not me
but people i personally identify with
people who I share sensibilities with
or people going through similar obsticles 
in real time and this changes
change is the only inevitable 
the framework for my choices is changing constantly
in the end though i don’t want to convolut it with 'art speak' and theory
its quite a visceral thing 
& film is a directors medium
in the end its about trust
a director is a psychologist
his goal is to get the best from you
and I’m a handful
my reality is at an 11(which is why meta-modernism is such a nice fit)
I’m dramatic, have been ever since i was young
i like to dramatize things, i enjoy behavior
people who enjoy behavior 
have a tendency to be good actors
and terrible civilians
I’m trouble
talent has a destructive side to it
talent comes from trouble
all talented people are nuerotic
'it has to be liquified' is how Sanford Meisner put it
if its trapped trouble it becomes troublesome
but if its fluid and can move into your imagination
it creates a neurotic point of view on the world 
which is great for an actor
& that stems from some kind of trouble
talent is destructive
theres an upside and a downside
so you gotta hold on to the upside
& be on the lookout for the downside
its about management 
so a lot of it comes down to
'can this director manage my point of view?’

in terms of intimacy-
both

Jerome was “Curly" from "Mice and Men”
i connected with his jealousy and pessimisum
im a lot of both
i was abandoned at a young age by my father
and this made me try to own people
& I’m quite pessimistic about my work
optimism is not the best attribute for an actor
its not a posotive attribute for all jobs, just some
i mean i wouldn’t want to have an optimistic air traffic controller 
"oh these planes are gonna be fine, pass the mustard"
id rather have a guy worried about a crash every time it takes off
"ok whats gonna go wrong on this one"
every time i go to work think-
"ok theres a disaster brewing here what do i need to look out for"
 
Lars is like an uncle
like your favorite uncle
he’s very loving and warm
super vulnerable
he leans on you
trusts you
knows how to inspire
he knows the law of the land
understands the craft
he is not a product of film school
& could give a flying fuck about technicalities 
he is skilled at understanding temperaments 
& personalities 
loves mistakes
hates rehearsal
he actively forces none
so for a controlling type of actor
he puts you through hell but its all very charming
i love him like family

favorite Spielberg movie -
"Saving Private Ryan” or “Hook"

I’m enjoying this as well


On 1 October 2014 16:29, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

what if our email exchange 
would be the interview itself
unedited email exchange as well as the times & dates etc
something intimate and private & beautiful made public
so it would be more a work of art
a collaboration
playing w/ the roles of me being interviewed
& you being the one interviewing
It also has so many cool references both ways 
it would be shit to see this go into some traditional interview format


I'm thinking of photos of the email/computer screen 
printed on the pages of Dazed
& we could edit the email screenshots into the iPad hand pictures too
so that the whole thing looks very private (maybe 2-3 pages)
our email addresses could just have this black block thing to cover them 
people would read it as interview or as a piece of art or both

were talking about intimacy online- right?
post internet art
all that stuff
printing online conversation would BECOME that point
rather than just illustrate it
"here is how we interact now
but we are talking about very intimate & personal things 
being connected, not ghosts" 
I like how immediate
fresh & unedited it is  
it worries me that it can potentially become 'just an interview'
  I like the voyerism aspect as well
'holy shit- I'm reading the personal emails!'

although they would not be sure 
whether it is a 'real' email exchange 
or whether we made it into this for Dazed 
intentionally raw and unedited
like #IAMSORRY they would not know if its manipulated or not

the "Being John Malcovich' of interviews

On Oct 1, 2014, at 10:14 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

you know, this has occurred to me too. it seems totally appropriate given our chat about online connections & not being ghosts :)

we might have to compromise because of the form though; i'd have to speak to my editors to see if it would be possible and if they'd be up for this. at the moment they want a 1800 word write-up from me for the magazine. 

an alternative i've been thinking about -

maybe i could write a piece for the magazine that has a short intro setting up the context, and then an abridged version of our conversation. not quite a traditional interview, something that accurately reflects how free-flowing this thread has been - accompanied by the images you sent

then online we could have two pieces: one is the film of our physical meeting; the other is a collection of screenshots of our conversation. maybe even presented together in one piece. it says: "you need both of these halves to get a whole picture - the online and offline" - even though both alone seem incomplete somehow.

i like the idea of both of these things being online because it escapes the appearance that we're simply trying to get people to buy the magazine by saying "the interview is in there". it makes it accessible to everyone (amplifying the voyeuristic, open feel of it). and I think it still makes the point you want to make - of your real self (our real selves, and the connection we've made, i guess) being somewhere in the middle of the two. 

there's more fluidity with how we can present things online, so i think we could pull this off.

just throwing ideas out there. what do you think?

On Oct 1, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

sounds good


On 1 October 2014 20:22, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

this is really cool
thank you for being malleable
i hope knowing these are to be published
won’t change the course of our conversation 
enjoy fury
speak soon

On Oct 1, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

i hope so too - will try not to be too conscious of it :)

thank you for coming to me with this, i'm excited. be in touch soon!

On 3 October 2014 15:32, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

what's metamodern about meditative or performative exercise?

my pal Tim
wrote some great stuff for -
Diango Hernandez’s “Socialist Nature” 
which speaks to this topic 
far more eloquently than i ever could
definitely worth a read

http://diangohernandez.com/spiritual-discovery/

On Oct 3, 2014, at 10:02 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

aha this is so helpful, thank you! especially - "reality is not transcendent but social and performative"

i've been asking u a lot about "self" & finding your "self" but starting to understand more this idea of the self or soul being located in the body, not some abstract floaty thing. and hence why you say when you play a role you go all the way there, and why those roles actively shape you. with ur image projected everywhere and your bodily involvement in ur work and art u must feel this body/soul connection even more acutely than most... 

i remember reading that you had a lot of physical injuries & scars from the transformers movies..

you say you don't overthink when you're acting, that it's like sex or any other physical activity - is it the same w performance art?

is this - "The moment you perform ideology, you are simultaneously performing numerous other possible relationships" - the thinking behind the sashes at the metamarathon? having others run for or with you?

On Oct 3, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

the live arts are completly knotted
no 'art-genius’ or scholar has ever untangled happenings from theater
or film acting from performance art
& no art historian ever tackled the issue
its drama -and if your method of performance is
non-fiction no mater what the material is
they REALLY are knotted
at the end of the day, its someone on stage, on set, outside, inside...
putting their life on the line to tell the truth as they see it
its drama - making peace with the gods
thats what drama is all about
its purpose is to transcend the individual 
to put the audience in communion with his fellow man
on stage, in the audience 
so as to address issues which can’t be reasoned

Stanislavsky said dramas function is to bring to stage the life of the human soul
so that the community can participate
so that we can celebrate the things we really KNOW to be true
knowing is understanding
& i think theres a huge difference between 
comprehension & understanding
if you step up to the plate thinking about your swing - thats comprehension
if you thoughtlessly step up to the plate getting the feel of your grip on the bat - thats understanding
in both acting and performance art - when I’m at the plate - I’m feeling
the thinking happens pre-game

acting and performance art are both celebrations
what is celebrated w/ the audience 
is the capacity for strife
the capacity for revelation
& the capacity for self-KNOWledge 
not self-examination or self-COMPREHENSION 
knowledge - understanding
its much less about thought
and much more about feel

the sashes make the choice last - it makes the choice permanent
it goes home with you - you can’t 'think it’ or “wish it" into another sash
its saying “you are your choices"

i empathize with Tyler Durdan in fight club 
on a lot of points but particularly his lack of wholesomness
& his thoughts on self-actulization and self-discovery
but he’s got a great line in the movie that makes me smile
regarding my time with Bay
‘I don’t wanna die without any scars”
thanks Mike :)


On 3 October 2014 22:01, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

have a look at James Neu’s “cafe vienna - 
he was a performance artist
but his shows were polished took place in theaters 
they had a narrative script even
a lot of Robert Wilson’s work could be considered theater
is opera, theater or concert?
is ballet, performance or dance?
its all a mixed bag
its all drama

On Oct 4, 2014, at 7:32 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

this is what ive found interesting about your artwork is that ur public persona has been a part of it - the metamodernist ideas of ur performances have become indistinguishable from the performance of being a celebrity. it seems like everything is a stage to you, press conferences, red carpets. all drama

what resonated with you about that cantona line that you quoted to the press back at the beginning of this year? i assumed it was to do w paparazzi & celebrity culture but always curious

have you always thought this way - about ur method being non-fiction, there being no distinction between the performative aspect of all public life/work/art - or is it something you've only recently become conscious of and felt in control of?

funny that u empathise w tyler durdan who is a projection/hallucination (spoiler alert lol).. what about his unwholesomeness appeals? the point about scars makes me think of this scene, which resonates because you talked before about feeling abandoned, about god being dead... but youre more hopeful than tyler now right? theres more to self-discovery and living a good life than self-destruction & scars. u said before that the point was helping each other get through this thing

sorry i feel i'm basically asking "what is the meaning of life shia?" ...answers on a postcard pls

On 4 October 2014 17:40, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

ur public persona has been a part of it 
 performances have become indistinguishable from the performance of being a celebrity. it seems like everything is a stage to you, press conferences, red carpets. all drama

its not just me tho its all of us
its societal - there is a huge push from the internet
facebook, twitter, google + ect..
to find the true-self, the ONE-self
& it becomes harder and harder to distinguish between
our private-self and our professional-self
this is true for everyone not just celebrities
-  
w/ work for instance 
we are trained to present our best-self
at the same time we are aware that this is artificial
curated, photoshop’d, made up “images” of our-self
our real-self is different
its not new its just now becoming dominant 
celebrities have been dealing with this for decades
we are living through a narrative of recognition
a religion of positivity - smile or die
its creating one dimensional representations of people
-
on Facebook for instance “friending” is the only option
on twitter its the same
it flattens every day experience by ruling out more complex feelings
ambiguities are not allowed
and these reduced choices steer eventually to a desensitized user
so kids of the real time generation or recognition narrative
are not looking to affirm truths 
as much as make truths
through limited choices & endless clicks
but its changing
-
see i think its ok to say ‘I am not who i am’ 
both as a celebrity & as a person raised on web 2.0
i think its honest to say that 
i think theres beauty in people who try to reinvent themselves
actors live a thousand lives as do hackers
i love that you can easily switch identities
there is no ONE-true-self there are MANY-true-selves
you can always switch masks
when there is no core or truth anchor locking you into this idea of oneness
of wholesomeness 
the personality can play around forever
peter pan shit

what resonated with you about that cantona line

the quote was a jab at the living-apart-together-media
& the consumer desire that drives the self promotion machine

"what is the meaning of life shia?” 

:) we are all mostly in a state of mind that is constantly hovering
constantly browsing, checking, updating shit 
there is no purpose or sense to it, no commitment
the meaning of life i think 
is to find your purpose, sensibility and commitment
and help others achieve the same
we all need to heal through interaction

have you always thought this way

no - I’m maturing past my postmodern relativism
I’m moving past style over substance
past true-self into multiple-self which is the opposite of 
the one-dimensional bullshit Facebook and twitter advocate
were told to believe there is no true face behind the mask
were told to ask what the mask is hiding 
instead of what the wearer is performing 
I’m finding clarity on the internet
in that i see it providing the potential for self-performance for all
and creative play for all
the internet proves Bueys was right in the end 
were all performers
-
remember that "Home Alone" scene i mentioned
with the 50 kids in the house on christmas
how that was heaven
yea, 
its lovely not to be alone

On Oct 4, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

:)

this all rings v true

do u mean the internet makes u feel less alone?

do you ever get this thought tho?

On 4 October 2014 20:12, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

i have never looked at the ceiling and thought
“man its nice to be Shia LaBeouf” 
but I’m working toward that obnouxiousness

i don’t know if the internet makes me feel less alone
just as i don’t think the printing press made my great-grandfather feel less alone
the radio didn’t make his son feel less alone
or the television w/ my father
its a new tool
and I’m learning to use it
to cope with loneliness
   
it beats watering a plant

On Oct 4, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

haha

i think i know what you mean. i have a lot of different forms on the internet, visible and invisible.. i can put one of them on and use it for instant hits of validation and that's like a way of coping. so i'm not as lonely but it's not not aloneness, i guess. i am beginning to sound like the so sad today twitter account

i feel you, my one house plant is totally dead, thanks to the internet

speaking of acting out for validation i remembered i wanted to ask you about james franco's article on you back in feb...he reckoned that u were engaging in an "addictive" game of "peek a boo" w the press. what stood out to me about his reaction was his apparent fear of calling your project(s) art. he's like, "if it is art..." - that hesitation is so weird to me. did u have any thoughts on the article...or on the occasionally recurring comparison of you to joaquin phoenix? (i mean, i guess it's the beards?)

On 4 October 2014 21:45, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

i quite like Franco
i think he airs on the post-modern side
but i like his work ethic
i think he, like most of the art world 
didn’t want to get caught in a hoax
or to be made to look a fool
i didn’t take any offense
& i don’t think he projected any
i dont like the “art” term either to be honest
i like “project” 
“projects” or “works" don’t separate the artist from the audience
“projects” are short term art made for specific sites & occasions
i like the Walt Whitman approach

Joaquin is the best we have
I’m flattered by it 
even if it just the beards
ill take it

On Oct 4, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

that's cool; i remember luke talking about how iamsorry was a living example of how there is not really some ideal "art" audience, that anyone can take something from your projects or events. i felt the same at meditation for narcissists.

is that an aim of yours - to push things forward to a place where your "art" projects are not considered/covered as being inherently different to say, fury? it's interesting how, with the metamarathon having just happened and the premiere coming up, both are being reported side by side at the moment. is that gratifying for you? are you hoping that your involvement in these projects will make popular culture fans, who might feel excluded from the term "art", feel able or welcomed to engage with the ideas?

walt whitman had a strong beard game too

On Oct 4, 2014, at 3:13 PM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

Whitman had a champion beard

yea, i think its already headed in that direction tho w/ or w/out us
the "performance art” term has be thrown around liberally as of late
from fashion shows to DJ events
its everywhere
“performative” was, at a time long ago, 
used only to describe the unmediated
engagement of the viewer and performer
now its being used to describe all kinds of work and study
architecture, economics, anthropology ect..
-
its been involved in pop culture and involving pop culture
since the mid 90s really
french artists who were raised on the french fluxus of the 60’s (everything is art)
like Christine Hill, Gabriel Orozco, Liam Gillick, Angela Bulloch ect..
had a group show in 96 concerning “relational aesthetics”
they all viewed the audience as material in the art
they set up situations where the viewer entered the work 
as an active participant
it was a democratic process of choices made by viewers
whose judgment would incorporate all their knowledge of the pop world
and internet culture, the choices made was the “artwork"
-
its not new
its headed there without us
theres been a steady wave of performance since the 70’s
it been a great way to respond to change
and in terms of frequency its not slowing, its only speeding up
its now starting to reflect the fast paced sensibility of our time
-
in the 80s we all just absorbed the media
now we participate we interact, we call in
the "citizen journalist” who’s youtube footage is aired on CNN
with a twitter scroll beneath that showing the real time debate-
pop culture is in, were all involved in the spectacle
its a 2 way street now
and i think our “projects” embody that 2 way street


On Oct 4, 2014, at 3:56 PM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

is that an aim of yours - to push things forward to a place where your "art" projects are not considered/covered as being inherently different to say, fury?

no my hope is that it stays in the middle
i don’t want to separate them
the mystery keeps me safe 
people are less upset by a mystery they can’t explain
than an explanation they can’t understand


On 5 October 2014 00:20, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

i think the way all of my work is covered now
be it performance or film
is simple “he’s crazy” 
this serves me well in both arenas


“you have to go on and be crazy, craziness is like heaven”
-Jimi Hendrix

On Oct 5, 2014, at 8:27 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

ooh.. but if the mystery aspect and the perception of you as "crazy" makes you feel liberated...doesn't that counter the open & inclusive nature of the art that you do? put a block on the 2 way street? it sounds almost like you're saying you'd rather people didn't try to understand

sure there's been crossover for a long time, but i would've thought your direct involvement in projects would accelerate consciousness (conscious consciousness) of metamodernist ideas in popular culture.. when u say people would be upset by an "explanation they can't understand," could you elaborate?

doesn't it ever wear you down or make you question yourself when you're labelled as crazy or troubled? people are obsessed with the 'child star gone off the rails' narrative.. it must be difficult to live with the feeling that others are reading that into your actions. romanticising your troubles, or falsely explaining away your artistic work.

or do you act up to it as hendrix suggests?

i totally agree w what u said a while back about admiring people who reinvent themselves btw. i think it is a very brave thing. and ive been thinking a lot about one-self/multiple-selves. i think there is something to be said for integrity and wholeness.. but interesting to think about that ability to perform (or rather the choices we make in performance?) being a characteristic or exertion of selfhood in itself..

but this digital vs physical selfhood conversation could seem pretty irrelevant in a few years i think. soon there will be no divide and we'll be living and dying online :(

On Oct 5, 2014, at 9:34 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

if the mystery aspect and the perception of you as "crazy" makes you feel liberated...doesn't that counter the open & inclusive nature of the art that you do?

no because i think we are all bizarre/crazy
some of us are just better at hiding it
were all dancing animals wearing masks
were babies in a 15 billion yr old galaxy
people think of the human race as this wise, sane, advanced species
we’ve been technologically & socially advanced for a whopping hundred years
we’ve been the “human race” for a hundred thousand years
were just at the beginning
we have so much to learn
we don’t know much

"explanation they can't understand," could you elaborate?

its all there - its not hidden

doesn't it ever wear you down or make you question yourself when you're labelled as crazy or troubled? people are obsessed with the 'child star gone off the rails' narrative.. it must be difficult to live with the feeling that others are reading that into your actions. romanticising your troubles, or falsely explaining away your artistic work.

pop/media critics are men and women just like me they find there ice cream in writing about others  thats what they do for a living sometimes they’re right sometimes they’re wrong never the less its still terrible to be humiliated in front of 50 million people - unlike Sontag i like the interpretation the social text  its collaborative thinking knowledge of my mental stability is hyperlinked  & open for comment and collaboration its banal and utopian at the same time

i think it is a very brave thing. and ive been thinking a lot about one-self/multiple-selves. i think there is something to be said for integrity and wholeness.. but interesting to think about that ability to perform (or rather the choices we make in performance?) being a characteristic or exertion of selfhood in itself..

you don’t loose integrity by wearing different masks
-
“man is least himself when he talks in his own person, give him a mask,
and he will tell you the truth”
-Oscar Wilde

soon there will be no divide and we'll be living and dying online :(

your there now
to live a tweet-less life
is a death


On 5 October 2014 19:49, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdT07UdqsX0
-
“motion pictures
on my tv screen,
a home away from home,
livin in between”
-
“well, all those headlines,
they just bore me now
I’m deep inside myself
but i’ll get out somehow,
and ill stand before you,
and i’ll bring
a smile to your eyes."

On Oct 5, 2014, at 1:04 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

i'm with you, i like sontag & as a critic i'm all for feeling but also enjoy interpreting the crap out of things. in my experience though it's rare to meet an artist who likes having those interpretations brought directly back to them, like in an interview scenario or something. i feel like many artists have a relationship with their work where it's a kind of ink blot test...interpretations are inevitable & desirable, but artists arent necessarily interested in hearing them because they say more about the viewer than the creator

anyway just find it cool that you're into hearing this constant interpretation and dialogue when the social text is not even about your artistic output, but your mental stability. must take a lot.

not to keep circling back to #iamsorry...but that must have been an intensive crash course in experiencing others' interpretations of you and what you were going through. how did that help you process the humiliation; did it make you confront the idea of 50 million interpretations of you in a more real way? i remember reading a really moving account on tumblr from a girl who came in and cried with you and said she understood what you were going through, told you about her own problems, empathised with you...that kind of identification from a stranger must be startling

there was also this guy who said he smoked half a joint with you which made me wonder how hard that made it to perform//be for the rest of the day

point taken about masks

when you say "you're there now" who do u mean?

-

this song...

when you interact with people, in #iamsorry, in general, do you feel you're wearing a mask? when we meet will it be a performance?

is that part of the drama that envelops everything? or is it where the healing happens?

On Oct 5, 2014, at 2:11 PM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

the show was alive, it changed minute to minute
visit to visit, day to day, the rules changed
it wasn’t monochromatic - 
its was a space of idealistic realism - 
there came a point 3 days in
where we agreed upon limited physical interaction
so sometimes i would wait for them to pull the bag
or if they entered in need & i felt that, id initiate it
every connection/ interaction was individualized 
hugs, hand shakes, smiles ect...
for that guy, sharing that joint was a warm hug
it was a leveler, it said 
"were the same you and I"
we bonded silently
and everyones energy affected the next visit’s energy
-
on the last day we pulled the objects from the table
and replaced them with the bag i was wearing
so the visitor would enter and make the choice 
on which me they wanted to expierience
the object, the fellow or both

when you say "you're there now" who do u mean?

new media is pop culture - we are the news
whether were in it or not
experiences are rarely experienced 
they are represented
think about how many art shows are reviewed 
by people who never go  
they review what is represented on the internet
-
I’m referring Guy Debord’s future
were living through it

when you interact with people, in #iamsorry, in general, do you feel you're wearing a mask? when we meet will it be a performance?
is that part of the drama that envelops everything? or is it where the healing happens?

life and performance are synonymous
it was both, and will be on the day
-
the purpose of drama is healing
it examines the paradox between the fact that every one
is trying there absolute best
but so few of us ever really succeed
-
there is a deep-seeded relationship 
between rationale & artistic experience
where rational thought is concilated by art


On 5 October 2014 22:32, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

in my experience though it's rare to meet an artist who likes having those interpretations brought directly back to them

any artist who worth his salt is going to be alert, 
even welcoming to critics who tell him to stop fucking around
it wouldn’t be new news either-
most greats that i have met have an incredible self criticism 
a spidey sense - thats what separates a great from a hack
most of the artists i respect are quite manic depressive
they say “that was great, i did it, I know what I’m doing here’ 
or they say “what a piece of shit i am, i don’t deserve to live”
that self criticisum is always heads and tails above anything the outside world can throw
there is no avoiding it - so its greeted at the door with open arms

On Oct 5, 2014, at 2:42 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

sure but rather than criticism like "pull your socks up mate that was terrible" i mean interpretation like "i read curley's glove as a metaphor for patriarchy's double standard" or something.. more an extrapolation of meaning. i totally agree about the self-criticism i've seen that and felt it too and i think you're right, should be in anyone worth their salt

"experiences are rarely experienced" rings depressingly true

On 5 October 2014 23:51, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed
But wouldn't an interpretation 
of a role I've already interpreted
Constitute criticism If not aligned
-
Semantics

On Oct 5, 2014, at 4:18 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

yes sorry didnt mean to get dragged into semantics yuk

i just meant specifically interpretation as in translation.. if i interpret something in your actions that wasnt intentional, that doesnt align with your perception of it, that's not necessarily a failure or a criticism, right?

anyway.. this is a bit of a tangent :)

i'm going to sleep & will get back to you with more questions soon

im going for a run in the morning, if you have any tips you'd like to share!

On 6 October 2014 01:10, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

Roger
Eat a banana


On Oct 6, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

interpretation as in translation.. if i interpret something in your actions that wasnt intentional, that doesnt align with your perception of it, that's not necessarily a failure or a criticism, right?

how would i know if it was intentional tho?
intentionality is impossible to pin down in my own mind
-
i guess what is interpretation for some is information for others
or ink blot nothingness for most
nonetheless it is the job of the artist to open his work up to it all
but the interpreters w/ authority should ask themselves if its helping
-
one of the big hiccups of "comment culture" is that
once a debate is in full swing on a topic
we really don’t know how to summarize peoples interpretation 
taste has been democratized
we no longer need taste police
-
it has very little authority but it should exist 
every interpertation reveals the intention to overcome distances
only in the contemporary art world are the distances protected and gaurded
the  art critic is a relic of modernism - he retreated into the university 
to wage a self-referencial battle of discorse
much like that Franco piece
it’s a ego-centric, celebrity driven, eliteisum
look at ‘Artforums”, “seen and heard” section
art criticism - whether its online or in print
drops the ball on convincing society of the relevance of the arts
young people don’t get that excitement or that passion for the culture
because its never transmitted to them
young people know about the new Yeezy’s
and the iPhone 6 because that excitement is transmitted 
those things get reported by Whitman’s who look to shore the gap
the elitist power structure of the contemporary art world turns people off 
no one cares how smart you are, we need to feel your passion, excitement 
why not look at art the same way we look at iPhones 
people stand in the cold for those
go to any museum - there empty


On Oct 6, 2014, at 6:17 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

since were on the topic of art interpretation/ intentionality 
you might like this aphorism Luke contributed to the ICA Art Rules thing
http://artrules.ica.org.uk/rules/251


On Oct 6, 2014, at 6:33 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:




On Oct 6, 2014, at 6:37 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

the top is annual
the bottom is quarterly


On 6 October 2014 15:05, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

we could see the return of useful art criticism
which is a much needed craft
to invent and invite styles and radical thought
by the same tool that killed off the gaurd -
the internet
-
My point is that the reality of people's experience of meuseums 
shouldn’t be an experience of "the art world"
the barriers between worlds are collapsing
-
that was central to our #metamarathon
at - outside - around - between
the Stedelijk & popular culture
(or beyond)

On Oct 6, 2014, at 8:33 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

"IS IT ME, or are quail eggs everywhere these days?” Witte de With director Defne Ayas wondered, waving away a tray of said canapé from our spot onboard The Halas, a hundred-year-old yacht." -- lol

i'm glad you said this bc when i asked before about the overlap w pop culture i was really thinking specifically of my younger brothers, who have watched their transformers dvd so many times they wore it out, but wouldnt be caught dead in a gallery. so i do see your involvement as a bridge between two worlds, something relatable and exciting in a world that might seem closed off. but how do you make art as urgent to young people as yeezys? 

the theatre of apple is kind of amazing. the way it infiltrates all platforms, the way they've branded this new watch as the "most personal device ever." it's gigantic in scale but also so intimate and present (and er, intrusive) in daily life - this is the same kind of relevance the art world needs, bc as you say the experience of empty buildings is not a real reflection. events like the metamarathon are a recognition of this & a step towards it; do you plan to do more of the same, to expand on these ideas? how else do we get the perception of the art elite away from the yachts and make people see art's presence and immediacy in their lives?

also you are right about criticism, it's the job of the critics to determine what's important but i think those decisions are in mad flux right now as critics try to figure out what their role is when everyone has a voice and an opinion. what's the most useful criticism you've ever been given?

on intentionality, i'd say if it was intended it was conscious...but of course it's often not so clear-cut.. especially i can imagine in what you do.

On Oct 6, 2014, at 9:25 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

how do you make art as urgent to young people as yeezys?

give them what they want-
work that has a big story
is political engaged
involves a new sincerity
built w/ craftsmanship
& educes empathy

events like the metamarathon are a recognition of this & a step towards it; do you plan to do more of the same, to expand on these ideas?

yes - that is central to our collaboration

how else do we get the perception of the art elite away from the yachts and make people see art's presence and immediacy in their lives?

reject the signature and master
collaborate w/ others
subvert the object oriented structure of art
which only leads to market driven fetishism of product
make art that gets up off its ass & shares secrets w/ everyone
make it public and intimate 
whisper through megaphones

what's the most useful criticism you've ever been given?

never listen to advise from anyone 
who doesn’t have a vested interest in your success


On 6 October 2014 17:37, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

I'm not sure it's a question of urgency really
people come to art or realize what art is for them
in their own time
there is no stop watch
“get this work, NOW”
-
also, as i said earlier 
the mystery is important
I like the idea that they might well be partaking 
& creating without even realizing it
-

what's the most useful criticism you've ever been given?
never listen to advise from anyone 
who doesn’t have a vested interest in your success

-
i guess thats advise not criticism
the best criticism -
“stop fucking around”- mom

On Oct 6, 2014, at 10:09 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

would you say your work is politically engaged? how?

you're right i think urgency may have been a lazy word choice: i definitely meant immediacy, relevance, a feeling that it has a real measurable impact on you. 

hah, i read that answer as your way of saying you don't read critics. do you?

when did your ma tell you to stop fucking around?

your mention of the rejection of master & signature is interesting; is that a new position for you, or one that you've always held & the reason you got into trouble last year?

On Oct 6, 2014, at 18:11, Aimee Cliff wrote:

and when i say "i definitely meant...." i mean, "i think i meant..." - intent too tricky to pin down for "definites" :)

On 6 October 2014 18:52, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

would you say your work is politically engaged? how?

the celebrity/ media objectification,
the networks and the attention economy
the market driven art world
its political in that it is examining
the public affairs of these structures
and how they effect us

hah, i read that answer as your way of saying you don't read critics. do you?

you never learn anything from critics
but i do scan them
as well as comments on twitter
its a lot of publicly articulated resentment
i think we (my critics and I) suffer from the same problem
we never got attention from the people who really mattered
so we seek a substitute
the applause of strangers-
its a desperate attempt to be heard
to achieve an impact
its a vulnerability we share
i wanted people to be kind to me
i assumed being skilled at my craft would fulfill that
that being well known for something i love 
would substitute the void of my father
i find that being well known actually causes people to be less kind
there is a tendency to be hyper critical, angry & cynicle
& i think the reasons behind people being unkind
are the same things that made me yearn to be well known
an underlying desire for kindness & attention
its a sibling rivalry
if I’m getting attention
there won’t be enough for them 
if there getting attention
there won’t be enough for me
were both vulnerable & looking for kindness
i see critics or web resentment stemming
from something we universally share as human beings
a craving for sympathy and gentleness
we want to leave behind a mark
we want to have an effect

when did your ma tell you to stop fucking around?

this last time i got arrested

your mention of the rejection of master & signature is interesting; is that a new position for you, or one that you've always held & the reason you got into trouble last year?

thats all Artaud & its something I’ve always felt
i always approached power with a question
its been part of my story
good & bad

On Oct 6, 2014, at 4:22 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

this:

"i wanted people to be kind to me
i assumed being skilled at my craft would fulfill that
that being well known for something i love 
would substitute the void of my father"

strikes a deep chord

i really appreciate your honesty

as for web resentment.. i think ur right about the way social media has not only made everyone into a critic, but made people even more obsessed with their own legacies. there's all these eerie services dedicated to handling people's online presences after they die, and all these ways of memorialising people's profiles online... there's this incredibly creepy one too called if i die 1st where the idea is that loads of people have sent messages in to the site, and the first of those people to die will have their message published on mashable.. people are hoping to die tomorrow so they can become internet famous. people are worrying about dying tomorrow bc theyre only as good as the last selfie they took.

but that's not because people suck; i like to be hopeful like you, and to think it's because people just want kindness

v few people have begun working on building a legacy and a profile in the public eye from an age as young as you have. when you think about your own legacy now, what do you think you have left to achieve? what are your ambitions?

On Oct 7, 2014, at 00:38 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

also - i'm excited to see fury tomorrow

i heard you really SANK YOUR TEETH into the role

is it true that you not only had your tooth removed but also cut your face, and didn't wash? was this the most immersive movie role you've ever taken on? (if not, what would you say was?) was your process encouraged or shared by the rest of the cast or by Ayer?

On Oct 6, 2014, at 4:38 PM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

what do you think you have left to achieve? what are your ambitions?

i have more to contribute
i want to be the best


On 7 October 2014 01:05, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

is it true that you not only had your tooth removed but also cut your face, and didn't wash? 
was this the most immersive movie role you've ever taken on? (if not, what would you say was?) was your process encouraged or shared by the rest of the cast or by Ayer?

Fury is the most meat I’ve ever had to chew on
David told us from the gate
“i need you to give me everything"
so the day after i got the job
i joined the US National Guard
2 months befor we shiped out to our cast boot camp
-
i was baptized - accepted Christ in my heart - tattooed my surrender 
& became a chaplains assistant to Captain Yates for the 41st Infantry
i spent a month living on a forward operating base in the gowen fields 
w/ the 82nd CAV as they prepared for afghanistan
went to gunner school with Squadron Commander Minor of the US Army
took and passed the ASVAB - NREMT and 68w
which certifies combat medic's for the National Guard
-
then i linked up with my cast and went to Ft Irwin 
to spend some time in the M1A2 Abrams
i pulled my tooth out
knifed my face up
&
spent day’s watching horses die
-
i didn’t bath for 4 months
i met some tankers who told me that was the way it was out there
some guys had the same pair of socks for 3 years 
-
David broke down my back story in the month long rehearsal process we went through
he rehearsed it like a play - with all of us
we all knew who we were
and who the other boys were as well
-
everyone encouraged me
those men carried me

On Oct 7, 2014, at 5:32 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

wow

when you say you accepted christ in your heart; will you forever be a christian now? is it something you are totally committed to? I ask because earlier you said "re god: i believe in magic"

i'm not being accusatory or saying i don't believe those two statements can co-exist. just curious about what you have faith in, and what faith means to you.

what was your experience on the base like?

what do you want to be the best at?

On Oct 7, 2014, at 6:21 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

when you say you accepted christ in your heart; will you forever be a christian now? is it something you are totally committed to? I ask because earlier you said "re god: i believe in magic”

if so much of what Jesus said was good
& so much of it was absolutly beautiful
what does it matter if he was GOD or not

what was your experience on the base like?

The Army has its elitist class as well
i found my group

what do you want to be the best at?

everything - I’m an American


On Oct 7, 2014, at 6:36 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

just curious about what you have faith in


http://reactiongifs.me/shia-labeouf-magic/


On Oct 7, 2014, at 6:58 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

"A magician is an artist of madness."
-Novalis

On Oct 7, 2014, at 15:51, Aimee Cliff wrote:

lol!

okay: tell me about magic. you embarked on a journey informed by the naivety of magical realism; art is a magical unfurling; you believe in magic.

what do you define magic as? the idea of "magical unfurling" struck me as meaning spontaneous, fortuitous appearance of beauty/meaning, it kinda takes away control or agency, imbues art with a kind of childish & universal "wow" quality. is this anywhere along the same lines?

where do you see magic?

why does novalis' alignment of enchantment with madness appeal to you? do you connect this with artaud's idea of consuming audiences in the spectacle of theatre, creating reality? when you act are you enchanting, creating magic, performing/causing madness? are you a magician?

--

as a total aside, was wondering if you'd be up for sending a computer selfie or a photo of your hands typing, to embed in the dazed piece? maybe even a short video we could turn into a gif.

no worries if not. an idea.

On Oct 7, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

lol!

okay: tell me about magic. you embarked on a journey informed by the naivety of magical realism; art is a magical unfurling; you believe in magic.

what do you define magic as? the idea of "magical unfurling" struck me as meaning spontaneous, fortuitous appearance of beauty/meaning, it kinda takes away control or agency, imbues art with a kind of childish & universal "wow" quality. is this anywhere along the same lines?

Some of my favourite art is religious art
though I think religion itself is ugly and divisive
I definitely prefer magic
magic and religion were actually pretty intertwined
'Religion and the decline of magic' by Keith Thomas -talks about this
 I think magic and science can co-exist
(the inherent magic of the universe)
whereas organized religion is largely founded on ignorance
also James Elkins writes amazing books about art and religion/magic
http://www.amazon.com/Strange-Place-Religion-Contemporary-Art/dp/0415969883

where do you see magic?

Aladdin’s lamp transported him from place to place in a twinkling of an eye
that was thousands of years ago - and that was only a myth
i see magic in this correspondence
the speed at which our expression, character & personality can be transported 
its been a dream for so long, for so many
it has come true

why does novalis' alignment of enchantment with madness appeal to you? do you connect this with artaud's idea of consuming audiences in the spectacle of theatre, creating reality? when you act are you enchanting, creating magic, performing/causing madness? are you a magician?

when I’m at my best, yes, I’m a magician
when I’m at my worst I’m an entertainer


On 7 October 2014 16:36, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

when you act are you enchanting, creating magic, performing/causing madness?

a magician pulls a rabbit out of a hat
an actor pull's truth out of fiction

On 7 October 2014 17:20, Aimee Cliff wrote:

been trying to think of a pun around pulling truth/pulling tooth but i'm just not getting there :(

super interesting that you mention religion & the decline of magic, will get back to you asap with thoughts/qs - about to hop on the tube

On Oct 7, 2014, at 2:02 PM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

hey shia,

i just got out of the fury screening and wanted to write to you while the blasts are still in my ears! i think it's the first film i've seen in a while where leaving the cinema required some blinking and deep breaths, a physical readjustment to all the space around me. i had to stop in the supermarket for food and saw someone smash a bottle of wine, and a pool of red appear suddenly on the floor. i was a bit twitchy.

it was a really claustrophobic experience, is what i'm trying to say.. if i can project an interpretation for a sec, i felt like it was a film about intimacy as much as violence: about how we try to erect walls ("don't get too close to anyone") in life or death situations but how they create deep bonds, about how we can hurt the people closest & most vulnerable to us, about humanity on both sides of a violent action. all that death and pain played out in such small and familiar spaces. it all felt so physically close. and i felt very emotionally close to the characters. i believed every word you said. like that kind of malleable boundary between intimacy and violence, i felt like your performance at times wavered on a boundary between extremities of emotion, between tears and maniacal laughter, trying to balance on a tightrope between both, and it was magic. 

when you said those boys carried you - i felt that. could you describe in any more detail the relationships you formed during filming? 

you said that you and Ayer devised a backstory for Boyd, what could you tell me about that?

that tank, its walls, its enclosure - it felt like a living part of the film. what was your relationship with it like as a set? as a home? 

what was your life like during filming? what did you go through? could you begin to describe the emotional journey of making this film?

On 8 October 2014 02:43, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

I’m really glad you enjoyed it

when you said those boys carried you - i felt that. could you describe in any more detail the relationships you formed during filming? 

brotherhood. 
all around
it was a family
it remains a family
i love those men
hard

you said that you and Ayer devised a backstory for Boyd, what could you tell me about that?

I’m the mother
the wife
I’m from Iowa
a preachers son 
of a preachers son
destined to take the congregation into the future
televangelism
war started 
God called 

that tank, its walls, its enclosure - it felt like a living part of the film. what was your relationship with it like as a set? as a home?

it was OUR tank
there may have been many like it
but it was OURS
it was our life
we had to master it
as we had to master ourselves
it was human
like a brother
we learned its strengths 
its weaknesses
its parts
its accessories 
with out it we were useless 
with out us it was useless

On Oct 8, 2014, at 3:09 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

i did!

one of the film's overriding themes was masculinity, & we saw norm "becoming a man" through being desensitised to violence...boyd being the nurturer and the peacemaker, the "mother" in that dynamic is particularly interesting. when he told norm to wait until he saw what a man could do to another...you could see that that process of hardening had already happened to all the men. what ideas about masculinity did you bring to the role? would you say the film was critical of this form of wartime manhood, of boys having to commit violence to earn it? what were the positive aspects of male identity you wanted to portray?

what drew you to boyd when you read the script?

do you have any favourite wartime movies, or characters that you drew on for this role?

-

been thinking about medieval mysticism a lil bit since you mentioned your belief in magic/science v religion; i studied anchoresses a while back, who would live like hermits in church walls punishing their bodies & ostracised from the world in order to get closer to jesus..who was presented as a courtly love figure, like he would actually come & take them, fill them with a very real love. the boundary between visions/dreams and "reality" in medieval literature and faith was so permeable; the life of the mind and spirit was as real as the life of the body. not sure if i have a question at the end of this yet. only that it's been running through my mind. :)

On 8 October 2014 14:55, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

i always had a fucked up view on masculinity
my father was a gun nut like Hemingway
he was also a junkie and a bully
mainly to prove he wasn’t effeminate
even though he was a painter and a poet
a mime and a storyteller
he never got drunk and spit on cops
shooting dope & animals was enough
-
he put it to me that your not a grown up
your not a man
until you have survived as he had
sooooooo many times
some famous calamity
-
every primitive culture has a puberty ceremony
where children become (un-challengablly) men
jews still have it - but its all religious nostalgia
for the most part super modern / industrialized societies
like ours don’t have them anymore
we only have the harrowing journey - war in particular
if a man comes back from war
especially w/ serious wounds
everyone agrees - “here is a man”
my dad told me when he got back from Vietnam
his family agreed “by golly- you look like a man Jeff”
i think the withholding a puberty ceremony 
from young men in our society is a scheme
cunningly devised to make young men go to war
it creates an eagerness to fight
its an aggression that stems out of insecurity

what drew you to boyd when you read the script?

my eagerness to fight
my insecurity
my self-rightousness
-
he’s both my parents

do you have any favourite wartime movies, or characters that you drew on for this role?

none that i drew on in particular
but i do love Vincent D'onofrio in “Platoon”
theres also a film called “Lebanon” 
that i watched a lot 
-
that bit about medieval mysticism & anchoresses is fascinating

On Oct 8, 2014, at 9:50 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

incidentally im reading a book about masculinity about bell hooks right now and she says a similar thing.. she talks about the emotional neglect of boys in patriarchal society, about the lack of ritual or guidance that helps them transition into adulthood, only a cultural media-propagated understanding that they should shut down their feelings. just looked up this quote that u reminded me of -- 

"Patriarchy both creates the rage in boys and then contains it for later use, making it a resource to exploit later on as boys become men. As a national product, this rage can be garnered to further imperialism, hatred, and oppression of women and men globally. This rage is needed if boys are to become men willing to travel around the world to fight wars without ever demanding that other ways of solving a conflict be found."

i think it's really cool that you drew on elements of both your parents' characters to portray Boyd. he's much more than pure aggression/rage, there's insecurity, grief, faith, love... were you also inspired by anyone you met during your time training with the military? 

do you have a good relationship with your father now?

re: anchoresses, yeah, i was super into that stuff...if you're interested the specific text i looked at was ancrene wisse, it was an instructional middle english text given to the women who chose the lifestyle. not exactly a hoot to read, but the ideas about religion they had were really interesting (that by fully withdrawing from physical life they could enter this new spiritual world, which was presented as being just as physically real/impactful).. there's also this beautiful middle english poem pearl about a man processing grief through a dream-vision he has of meeting his lost loved one in paradise (if you click on the verse it will translate) and an old english poem called dream of the rood about a man who dreams of seeing the cross jesus was crucified on, and the cross tells the story from his (the cross's) perspective. these are all interesting for the really bodily & even sometimes sexual language surrounding spiritual subject matter, and the totally visceral reality of dreams. so. if you ever fancy some medieval reading!

sorry there arent more questions in this one ha

On Oct 8, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

i think it's really cool that you drew on elements of both your parents' characters to portray Boyd. he's much more than pure aggression/rage, there's insecurity, grief, faith, love... were you also inspired by anyone you met during your time training with the military? 

US ARMY CPT Shane Yates
& Marjoe Gortner

do you have a good relationship with your father now?

no 


On 9 October 2014 17:15, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

you see
depending on how you go about it
they are very, very similar crafts
-
"You really bring the actors on the edge of complete nervous breakdowns, 
because I am a performance artist, 
I understand very well what you are doing.” - Marina Abramovic
-
http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/22118/1/marina-abramovic-wants-to-team-up-with-lars-von-trier

On 9 October 2014 17:40, Aimee Cliff wrote:

this idea of madness & mental breakdown again - are they similar because they harness or create madness, by testing reality?

-

i wanted to circle back to the sky writing & the #startcreating to tie in with the images you sent, if you're down for that.

could you tell me a little about the skywriting and the idea behind it? i loved that it was a creative way of spreading the message to "stopcreating"; just as the tweet about retiring from public life was itself a public magnet for attention. was this deliberate? what was the thought process behind it, and the later "#startcreating"?

we talked a little before about how your true self was commodified when you got stuck in persona acting, and how you've regained control through the recognition that you can have more than one true self: something you believe social networks don't allow for, because they flatten out our interactions into one-dimensional gestures

so with all this in mind, could you talk me through your use of social media as performance art? including the Nike app, and the Tumblr - what are those doing in terms of exploring the human potential of the networks?

did you actually set out to retire and have a change of mind, or is this retirement as you see it? because i've been thinking... maybe it is true, to an extent, that you've retired from public life, because you're a many-faceted person, and you keep some of those facets to yourself?

On Oct 9, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

also, looking at the photos again, i realised you have the cross on your left hand. is that what you were referring to when you said you got your newfound faith tattooed for fury? what do you think of when you look at it? you mentioned the beautiful things jesus said; do you have a favourite bible verse? i got shaken up watching the scene where you recite the “send me” verse inside the tank before the final battle.

On 9 October 2014 21:52, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

looking at the photos again, i realised you have the cross on your left hand. is that what you were referring to when you said you got your newfound faith tattooed for fury? what do you think of when you look at it? you mentioned the beautiful things jesus said; do you have a favourite bible verse?

thats one yea
-
i think of a badass
naked in the desert
on a white horse
wearing a white cape dipped in blood 
holding a sword
charging into the fight
with a thousand men behind him
i think of a fierce
wild 
romantic man
-
“Stand firm then,
with the belt of truth buckled around your waist,
With the breastplate of righteousness in place.
and with your feet fitted with the readiness 
that comes from the gospel of peace.
Take up the shield of faith,
with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Take the helmut of salvation
& the sword of the spirit.
Which is the word of GOD’
-Ephesians 6

could you tell me a little about the skywriting and the idea behind it? i loved that it was a creative way of spreading the message to "stopcreating"; just as the tweet about retiring from public life was itself a public magnet for attention. was this deliberate? what was the thought process behind it, and the later "#startcreating"?

The #stopcreating part was triggered 
by a legal notice I received from Clowes' lawyer 
which included the words 
"he must cease all efforts to create"
and tied in with Goldsmith's uncreative writing mantra
it was an grand, over the top ironic move
I didn't really want to surrender to that cynical sentiment
Goldsmith pushes
so putting a hashtag 5 miles wide in the sky
tapped directly into the creative spirit of the networks
& that is what #startcreating was all about
the day after we finished #iamsorry
it generated a feedback loop of creativity
through twitter and instagram and tumblr
viewers becoming creators
the two hashtags bookended #iamsorry
embodying the metamodern movement 
between irony and sincerity
deconstruction and construction
coming out the other side with optimism

could you talk me through your use of social media as performance art? including the Nike app, and the Tumblr - what are those doing in terms of exploring the human potential of the networks?

social media is a performative space
we each try to craft our online personas
we self-brand and self promote
which always fails to represent our true selves
i think the humanity of the network is found in this failure
because we all know of it
but we keep on trying
because we're in it together

did you actually set out to retire and have a change of mind, or is this retirement as you see it? because i've been thinking... maybe it is true, to an extent, that you've retired from public life, because you're a many-faceted person, and you keep some of those facets to yourself?

this was an appropriated tweet from Justin Bieber
now my tweet is all that shows up when you search google
so it has become its own truth
i guess in a sense i was retiring the public persona that had come before
in order to reassert some kind of control over “shia” the object

theres also a Jim Carry line in there
“if you explain @jimcarrey you’ve killed him, 
nobody knows its for real or not. that way he’s immortal”
i lifted that from an interview Jim Carry was doing about Andy Kaufman
neither he nor most of the public ever looked into that very much
that reference in particular came 2 days after my “retirement”
which was my way of asserting my intention

this idea of madness & mental breakdown again - are they similar because they harness or create madness, by testing reality?

no not testing
revealing
getting up on stage, naked, in front of the world
and turning around REALLY slowly - is mad
its also what this whole thing is about
madness is the only way to get to the soul

On Oct 10, 2014, at 4:59 AM, Aimee Cliff wrote:

ah thank you for tying this all up! I knew about Clowes but had forgotten about Bieber, and no idea about the Jim Carrey stuff. you've spun a neat web out of the web 

i love the idea of the feedback loop of creativity too, and that the humanity of the networks is in our mutual failure. because we keep on trying, but also, i reckon, because we join the gaps between each other's failures. i think we've learnt or are learning how to read social media presences like we read body language as a part or projection of the whole..

speaking of getting up on stage, would you like to try theatre again? do you have any plans to?

--

just to let you know, i'm writing up the Q&A for the print mag today to submit this weekend, so going forward will just be stuff that won't be in print, but we can screenshot and put online.

up to you how you want to go on. i'll happily keep piling the questions and rambling asides into your inbox...equally fine if you just want to take a break :)

On 10 October 2014 6:25 AM, Shia LaBeouf wrote:

would you like to try theatre again? do you have any plans to?

maybe - I’ve read a few things i like
& have had talks w/ Kessler 
about doing “Orphans” in Chicago or LA
the trouble with theater tho isn’t material 
the trouble is the theater itself, the venue separates people
it doesn’t speak to my generation
if you go to broadway now
everyone in the crowd is 40+
the youth don’t connect at all
the theater is dying
it is always dying tho
it was dying in the 30’s
when the mercury group saved it from itself
with Orsen Wells’s “War Of The Worlds”
which shored the gap & involved people
same with Russia when Stanislavsky came around
or Germany & Brecht, they involved the audience
they spoke to society & w/ society about the current expirience
Nastja, Luke & myself are really enjoying our collaboration 
w/ each other & the audience
its collaborative creation which centers on 
collective persona & authorship
the collaborative spirit of the the networks winning through
i think that speaks far more accurately to where we are as a society
than theater would allow for
-
the networks might struggle to coherently represent the individual
but the collective can achieve coherence
and empowerment of self (selves)
through a shared creative consciousness
-
that's what I've picked up this year anyhow
-
yea a break might be good
see you in London